The only reason he confessed to this is because it happened in Utah... all he has to do is marry both of the girls before they turn 10 and the charges will be dismissed!
gordon d
JoinedPosts by gordon d
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Utah JW Pedophile Confesses
by Gerard inhttp://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=641356.
man who confessed to molesting children goes to court todaynovember 13th, 2006 @ 6:56amupdate: court officials tell ksl the hearing is not scheduled for today.
gene kennedy reporting.
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I HAVE TO KNOW WHAT DOES duh stand for?
by inlove in"as mentioned in last nights meeting, keep knocking, keep searching for it (the truth.. little-by-little, jehovah will reveal it to those with the right heart.
condition at the proper time.as mentioned in.
i have no need nor the desire tolook anywhere else for the truth or consider any other view points, be it letters from people that "claim" to be witnesses or from web sites and the.
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gordon d
Ooopps.... I guess I misread your question.... please dis-regard the above post
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22
I HAVE TO KNOW WHAT DOES duh stand for?
by inlove in"as mentioned in last nights meeting, keep knocking, keep searching for it (the truth.. little-by-little, jehovah will reveal it to those with the right heart.
condition at the proper time.as mentioned in.
i have no need nor the desire tolook anywhere else for the truth or consider any other view points, be it letters from people that "claim" to be witnesses or from web sites and the.
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gordon d
Hi InLove. Welcome to the board
We had a topic that led to this subject as part of the discussion.. it's gotten pretty lengthy but there may be something of interest to you towards the later posts....
You may want to take a Tylenol before reading the whole thing!
here's the link:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/124057/1.ashx
Here also is a quote from that thread.... My answering another poster's question.
So on what, exactly do you base your "Pro-God" belief system? You haven't exactly explained your side of the argument during the course of this thread, even though you've required atheists to explain the basis for their belief system. Care to try? If it isn't anything to do with the "god" of the bible / New Testament, how do you regard yourself as a Christian? (I've been reviewing your posting history... )
It's not easy for me to communicate here, in writing... but if you really want to know, I'll give it a try... that's only fair.
I have some reservations about the Bible as we know it today. A history of it's origin and it's preservation cause more confusion than confirmation. I also do not believe that anything that we might generally consider as religion is a fundamental part of the intimate relationship that we can have with another being. Just as going through the ceremony of marriage does not automatically make you any "closer" to your spouse. However, I do believe that humans posses the abilty to "bond" with others on a level that science cannot explain. I feel that religions have been guilty of portraying an impression of God that is far removed from his true nature. I also believe that God has allowed this (and human suffering) for a reason and that he will not allow the current situation to last forever. But that is another topic, entirely.
I do believe in the biblical and historical accounts of Jesus.... also, that he was born into human form and ultimately acted as a sacrifice for the foundation of a new covenant between God and mankind. As ridiculous and barbaric as this originally sounded to me, the more searching that I did, the more "sense" that it made..... not to Western or even Eastern thinking but in equilibrium, at a higher level. I do believe that Christ is an entirely seperate entity than the one that "sent" him and has his own will and own thoughts. These views I can only support as being attained through spiritual enlightenment.... even an ability to discern man-made thoughts from God-inspired ones. I realize that this sounds like a form a mental illness but it does not manifest any of the traits of such a malidy (apart from the possibility of a transfixed delusionalism that has no accompanying psychoses... practically an unheard of condition) I do not believe that it is the place of anyone who has gained enlightenment to arbitrarily share knowledge with someone that is not given their own knowledge from spiritual powers. For example, translating of an understanding of a "true" Biblical parable to someone who has no real desire for the knowledge or no love for the will of the one who created it.
I am not saying that I've been given mystical powers? I am saying that an unexplainable change occured during my search for God. This change resulted to an immediate opening of my eyes to spiritual matters that had escaped me (no matter how much I had meditated on them in the past). Some people may refer to this as being born again, seeing the light, or becoming one with God. It's impossible to explain, there simply are no words for it. I would have NEVER believed it as something from God, at any point in my life... until it happened. The people that say one becomes a "new creature" are right..... just ask those that knew me before and after. It is not the same as the transformation of an achoholic in recovery, or a psych patient experiencing a breakthrough.... it is a complete changing of a persons very being. I fully realize that no one who has yet to experience this for themselves would ever understand it... but at the moment that it happens, you completely understand, and you have a peace that overwhelms you.
I hope this helps! You're welcome to PM me if you want to talk.
P.S. WELCOME BACK SPARKY!!!!!!!!!
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--- A Question for ALL Atheistic ex-Dubs----
by gordon d inwhich child is wiser?
while starting a hunt for easter eggs one child runs to a big tree and finds nothing then that childs brother says, go look under that rock i promise youll find one there!
the child throws down their basket and says, i give up!
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gordon d
Hi Caedes... it's a pleasure to meet you.
would the answers you've had from the atheists here lead you to question your pre-suppositions? I mean every one of the replies you've had should lead you to realise that atheism isn't quite the bleak existence you supposed.
I agree that atheism is a far superior lifestyle than that afforded by most religions... There is more freedom, happiness, and yes "Hope". I've obviously done a poor job of expressing that there exist a spirituality separate from religious dogma. I'm not sure why, but people seem to keep making reference to the "God" they learned about while participating in some organization. Even though they fully realize that that organization lied to them... Why is it so difficult to realize that THEY LIED ABOUT GOD TOO!!!
"but doesn't the bible say".... Stop! Didn't the organization give you THAT TOO?
I also wonder how you feel your evangelizing compares to what you claim atheist's do when they present a rationalist worldview.
I think there is a difference between answering a question about one's personal beliefs and making an unsolicated insult towards someone that is in their own searching process. Insinuations that another person's belief are foolish and that their consideration of something unknown makes them less intelligent than those that have resigned themselves to "reality" as they know it. I started this thread in response to those actions.... All of my commenst are here for review, If I have ever offered my beleifs in an unsolicted, unwelcome, or ceorcive manner... then I am guilty of what I criticize and a hypocrite.
I also wonder how you feel your evangelizing compares to what you claim atheist's do when they present a rationalist worldview.
Again, It's NOT about the atheist viewpoint...If that is satisfactory for the person that beleives it ... GREAT! It's about (some atheists) arrogance and lack of tact.
How does my evangilizing compare?...... It is highly speculative, highly irrational, but just as viable as anyone else's opinion... I just hope it's not delivered in an offensive manner.
By the way I would try hard not to reply with the 'I've been where you are now' line, if you don't mind!
Point taken..... and well! Dale Carnagie????
Thanks!
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--- A Question for ALL Atheistic ex-Dubs----
by gordon d inwhich child is wiser?
while starting a hunt for easter eggs one child runs to a big tree and finds nothing then that childs brother says, go look under that rock i promise youll find one there!
the child throws down their basket and says, i give up!
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gordon d
My Bad!!! Scully DID answer the question but her answer was not the (really stupid) one that I needed to make my point... so I'm waiting for another one. :) I'm not familiar with the term pantheist... time to go Googling.
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--- A Question for ALL Atheistic ex-Dubs----
by gordon d inwhich child is wiser?
while starting a hunt for easter eggs one child runs to a big tree and finds nothing then that childs brother says, go look under that rock i promise youll find one there!
the child throws down their basket and says, i give up!
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gordon d
I didn't really want to do this, but what the hell?
This is only directed at certain people... If it offends you, you're probably one of them!
Quoting (not accurately) from Phoebe to Ross on the show Friends during a debate about evolution.
"Wasn't there a time when the world's greatest minds thought that the atom was the smallest thing in the universe.... until they opened one up and all this stuff came flying out? Are you telling me that you are SO arrogant that you don't even consider the remotest possibilty, that there might be some teeny-tiny chance that scientist are wrong about this too? Is THAT what you're telling me? If so, I think maybe it's time you put "Ross" under the microscope!"
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--- A Question for ALL Atheistic ex-Dubs----
by gordon d inwhich child is wiser?
while starting a hunt for easter eggs one child runs to a big tree and finds nothing then that childs brother says, go look under that rock i promise youll find one there!
the child throws down their basket and says, i give up!
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gordon d
Hey Asheron,
Sorry it took so long, I read your comments about 4 times.... Not sure (with the limits of this form of communication) but I think we are in agreement on the basic principles of this thread...
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--- A Question for ALL Atheistic ex-Dubs----
by gordon d inwhich child is wiser?
while starting a hunt for easter eggs one child runs to a big tree and finds nothing then that childs brother says, go look under that rock i promise youll find one there!
the child throws down their basket and says, i give up!
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gordon d
Oops... must have touched some button....
Oh, and please do not commit the intellectually lazy act of thinking not believing in god means those who don't feel or are hopeless. Pascal's wager is just a sad way of
No one has anwered my question: (first define hope-less-ness)... the claim again was: If you are an atheist... what is your hope? If there is one, then I was mistaken in implying that there was not. Pascal's wager was limited to the contrast of Catholisim against atheistic viewpoint.... It was limited as an argument to any conclusion outside those parameters.
Nope, most don;t ask that. However a common question posed is "if there is a god why is there no evidence for god exisitng, and why is there always a perfectly satisfacoty (or at least as satisfactory) naturalistic explanation for all the things some people claim god did"?
A perfectly satisfactory answer implies an arrogance on the part of a proponent of a particular viewpoint... Are you saying that there is no debate between persons with far more knowledge than us on these "Facts"? The history of man is full of examples of believers in unknown (unseen) things... As a society, we celebrate the hopeful and vilify the skeptics as fools but only after the luxury of their discoveries have been "verified" by our standards. When we are in the "proving" stage how certain can we be. Example: Is there life on other planets....
Please do not restrict your rhetorical questions put on behalf of atheists to ones you find easy to answer.
Example?
Why on Earth do you think this is an argument? You presuuppose there IS an existence beyond this life. There is no proof of this. Why should someone not being able to demonstrate a hope for an unprovable and probably (as with other unprovable things) non-existent life after death be considered anything other than rational?
Same question/statement as above.....
But it is an egg you cannot prove you found. You can't exactly show it to anyone, can you? Even if they examine your path and look for evidence that would be classified in a court of law as 'beyond resonable doubt' or accepted in a peer-reviewed science journal, they will see no indication the egg exists outside of your mind .
I broke the egg to open it.... All I can show you is what was inside... If you really want to see, c'mon over.
And others say THEY have the ONLY egg and that YOU LIE, and that their egg will destroy all those that don't believe in it!!!!
Wow.. those people have some pissed off eggs! Glad I didn't get one of those! .... Oh wait, I do remember getting one of those eggs, lot's of people did, but I threw mine back.
There's a point? BAD analogy. Anyone anywhere can repeat the UV experiment and get the same results. Not so with testing god. There ARE results. If you replace sunlight with a duck or darkness, you get no reaction. Things seem to happen pretty much without god. You are asserting that the 'results' come from god, but why should we believe you? Why, the results you credit to god could come from my hairy arse or the almighty cosmic duck, or just be that way as that's the way the Big Banged (like 'cookie crumbled' but, like, really big)
I don't think I'm gonna try and use any more analogies here.
The point was not about testing God by scientific methods that are developed by our "Amazingly Vast Intellect" It was a statement about the openmindedness of people have haven't been handed the results of years of research.... Again: Do YOU beleive in life on other planets? (NOTE to READER--- This Question is NOT about life on other planets.. It's about YOU!!!)
The only person who seems to think their knowledge is unbounded is you. No one else is saying 'we' know everything. We are simply saying you nor anyone else has proof of god sufficient to pass the 'beyond reasonable doubt' test or peer review. In the absense of such proof you choose to believe. We don't. Get over it and please put your overweening superiority complex to one side until it fits you.
Smarter than you... who know's? More open-minded than you... who knows? More gullible than you... who knows? Maybe we'll get some answers if we keep looking.
You've implied that you are more knowledgable about theories of evolution.... you're probably right, it is not really a subject that fascinates me.
If I have implied that I know more about God than you.... maybe that is a fair statement too?
Why are you so sure you are not mentally ill? Hell, I've lost count of the number of god-whispers and Jesus we get through here. Some Islamic terrorists would describe a personal religious experience not unlike yours that lead them to kill people. There is NOTHING to differentiate the validity of your claims from theirs.
I'm not ruling anything out... I'm just looking at the results of this current "condition"... fortunately, there have been no signs of destructive behaviour.
Please, don't assume we haven't thought about this topic at great length and discussed it eventually. It's very arrogant to assume you are claiming ANYTHING new that someone hasn't claimed before, and that by the use of hacknied and unoriginal arguments we're suddenly going to say "gosh, there must be a god after all".
Perhaps... Just perhaps... This isn't about you! The first line of this thread was directed elswhere.. the statements that I've made since have been in response to someone else's questions. I hope i haven't ignored any of yours.
If none of the non-evidental arguments for god haven't worked in the past they won't work now just because it is YOU typing them.
You're probably right.....
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--- A Question for ALL Atheistic ex-Dubs----
by gordon d inwhich child is wiser?
while starting a hunt for easter eggs one child runs to a big tree and finds nothing then that childs brother says, go look under that rock i promise youll find one there!
the child throws down their basket and says, i give up!
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gordon d
Hi Abaddon,
Which god are you selling today?
The one you haven't heard about.
Oh - normally I find the chief qualification those who oppose current scientific theories regarding evolution know as much about evolution as my cat. Please tell me two different types of selection that take place in evolution, and describe in your own words what runaway evolution is. Having satisfied myself that you know what you're talking about and aren't simply banging in search strings into Google until you find someone who you agree with we can talk further on that topic.
If you'll share the sources that you used to gain YOUR knowledge, I promise not to Google anything, I'll try to confine my knowledge to the same texts, form my own opinions, and we can discuss the theories of others as long as you'd like. I will do my best not to let my current perspectives on the matter affect our discussion... I won't even bring my old HUM-ANT term papers.
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--- A Question for ALL Atheistic ex-Dubs----
by gordon d inwhich child is wiser?
while starting a hunt for easter eggs one child runs to a big tree and finds nothing then that childs brother says, go look under that rock i promise youll find one there!
the child throws down their basket and says, i give up!
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